Why punishment,

why hell?

Salaam, some guy on this forum (not islamica) who is stronly against organized religion, opnened a new thread asking about the concept of punishment in religion. He sees the concept of eternal punishment as illogical and contradicting the claim that God is merciful. It's a board full of Americans so it was somewhat Christian oriented but when I asked him if he would like an Islamic perspective, he said yes. So Itried to give one. Please feel free to point out any mistakes I made, please do actually. I'm not very knowledgeable but I felt it was my obligation as one of the few Muslims there to asnwer. So yea.

Originally Posted by X: "God supposedly loves me. He sent his only son down to earth to die for me."

Me: "Not in Islam, I saw you visited my profile. If you haven't read what is written there fully, read it. Its very interesting (I have the 'Oh worshippers of the Messiah' poem in my profile)."


Originally Posted by X: "His creation of me is a supreme act of love. With him, all things are possible. I will fear no evil, because he walks with me. Even in the shadows of death. If, however, I do not submit to him, I will be tossed into a sea of fire and I will burn FOREVER. Not just for 20 min. or during a lunch break, but FOREVER. Where the devil will pull a Hitler on my ass."

Me: "I do not see anything wrong with this, He is the one who created you, He is above you. I do not see what is strange about Him laying down the law for us. Telling us what is right and what is wrong.

After all, live on earth is but a moment compared to 'forever.' We should walk this world as a traveler. Prophet Muhammad(peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is reported to have said when asked about luxury. "What do I have to do with this world? My relationship with this world is like that of a traveler on a hot summer's day, who seeks shade under a tree for an hour, then moves on." (Reported by Ahmad and al-Haakim. Saheeh al-Jaami', 5545).

If you look at it like that, compare 70-80 years to forever? It's nothing right. It is but a moment. So why not make it a moment of obedience, after all, if you do you will be rewared with Jannah(paradise) with pleasure and rewards unmatched to wordly life, and you will abide therein forever.

However those who will not abide by the laws of their Creator will off course be punished, Allah Ta'ala created them, is above them. But they act arrogant and place themselves as an authority above The Almighty. What kind of idiotic behavior is this. Why show such arrogance to your Creator, Who gave you life, Who is above all of His creations. Nothing is above him.

This is the same arrogant behavior Iblees/shaytaan/the devil showed when Allah Ta'ala asked him and His other creations to prostate before Adam(peace be upon him). Iblees blatantly said no and disobeyed. He thought he was better than Adam (alayhi salaam) who was created out of dust/dirt because he was created from fire. But this doesn't matter since the All Wise asked him to prostate but he didn't. For this reason he shall burn in hell forever. Don't get caught up in this strange Christian logic that Satan will rule in Hell, off course not, he disobeyed Allah Ta'ala and shall burn and be punished.

But he asked Allah Ta'ala if he could try and make mankind stray cause he was angry at us. He thought he was better than us so when Allah Ta'ala asked him and others to prostate before Adam (alayhi salaam) he refused. Allah Ta'ala allowed him to try and said that everyone who follows him, will be punished alongside him. This was all part of His plan, to test mankind. He gave us free will, now see what we will do with it.

When we disobey our Creator we obey Iblees. Now it is true that every child of Adam(peace be upon him) sins, but He is also All Forgiving, we just have to ask for it and be sincere. We have to earn it, realize we made a mistake and ask our Creator to forgive u., Like Adam (alayhi salaam) and Eve did when they ate from the apple, we don't believe in this silly concept of the original sin, we believe that they asked for forgiveness and were forgiven before they got sent down to earth. Anyway, why not submit to your Creator, He alone can give you reward. And He alone will punish.

Originally Posted by X: "Ok... Now... Answer this for me.

If God loves me so much, then why would he ever subject me to so much punishment?

Basically... This says to me..."Ant, I love you so much. You are my beautiful creation. My child. But if you don't love me back, I'm going to torture you forever. I'm going to send you to my enemy so that he can poke, prod and burn the flesh from your body over and over and over again. And even if you beg for forgiveness during your torture, then it's too late bitch. So you better love me and follow this book, or ELSE. If you do, then I'll allow you to come up to my great paradise in the sky where everything is white... The streets are gold... Everybody ridin' on spinners and you can worship me forever. Serve me with no end."

What would be your response to this? Doesn't sound like love to me. Sounds psychotic. Especially considering I never asked to exist."

Me: "God doesn't love those who disbelieve and disobey Him. Only the ones who do not believe in Islam will burn forever. Islam is the only religion with Allah Ta'ala. It is the religion of Abraham, Noah, David, Moses, Jesus and the 1000s other prophets(peace be upon them all). All other religions are either man made, or corrupted by man by inspiration of Iblees. Like Paul who introduced the trnititarian belief, wich was NEVER conveyed by Jesus(aleyhi salaam) himself. Also neither of them said they were final prophets, there were 1000's and people have always accepted new prophets sent by God, so why suddenly stop when they themselves never said they were the last. Only Muhammad (sallallahu aleyhi wa salam) said he was the last. Through him Allah Ta'ala perfected the religion.

Now there are excuses made I believe to those who have never heard of Islam, or the true believers between two messengers. But this is the jist of it.

Now as for the ones that believe but sin, say they have not asked for forgiveness, or maybe their repentance was not accepted they will be punished according to the extent of their crime and afterwards will be allowed into paradise."